In this episode, Rachael Studebaker and I dug into Blake Howard’s book “Radically Relevant“.
You can listen to the episode here:
For more on Rachael, check out her company at StudebakerDesignCo.com
Full Transcript:
Mickey: In 20 years of helping growing brands launch, change and evolve, Blake Howard has found a simple answer. For success. Brands must be radical with a unique differentiation that makes them stand out in the marketplace and relevant by offering something compelling to their audiences.
The forward to the book is written by braining expert, Alina Wheeler, who says that having worked with hundreds of organizations from four 100 companies to startups and nonprofits. I believe the biggest universal challenge is getting the C-suite on the same page regarding brand strategy, execution, and capital investment.
Good news, radically relevant is the Go-to guide you have been looking for. So this of course was from Blake Howard’s book, radically relevant if you didn’t get in the beginning there. And joining me to discuss today is Rachael Studebaker. So Rachael, welcome. Tell the folks a bit about yourself.
Rachael: Hello. Hi Mickey and audience, thank you so much for having me on your show. Uh, my name is Rachael Studebaker. I am the founder of Studebaker Design Company and consider myself an artist, a brand designer and strategist, helping show up, uh, in their industry more Honestly, [00:01:00] I, this
Mickey: Nice.
Rachael: such a great guide and a huge thing to re relate to, based on the things I’m trying to work on every day.
Mickey: Awesome. Now I wanna get your overall thoughts, um, on the book in a second here. My first one is kind of a meta overall thought is that this book isn’t available on Kindle, which kind of bothered me until I actually got the book and realized it would be impossible to have this on Kindle. It’s easily the best design book I’ve ever read, like every single page I.
Had serious design from Blake and given who he is and his company, that’s not a surprise, but it kind of threw me off because I much prefer Kindle, but this book just literally couldn’t be un Kindle, which shocked me. But it was, it was beautiful. So that was kind of a, a, a metal look at it, but what did you really take away from the book?
What were some of your overall thoughts?
Rachael: Uh, well, I can agree with you. This is a beautifully designed book and, um, I always prefer physical books, so I was happy to buy it. Um, the book itself was so useful, a lot of really great thoughts. Um, I’m coming at it as a designer and somebody that is involved in branding, so. I’m a little bit biased in in [00:02:00] taking this information and trying to more from it, but I think it’s so useful as a business owner and somebody who’s not in branding because Blake, Howard does a really great job of distilling all of these concepts into like, uh, relatable and I jargon-free approach I guess.
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: even the examples he uses of other brands in the books and saying like, he has Disney and Netflix and Comcast, these big brands that we all have some kind of relationship with. He’s not sharing this typical information of like they have good branding because it’s clean and modern or whatever it is. He’s relating it to their positioning and the way that you feel and stories that you walk away having been a customer with this brand or being an outsider of that brand.
Does that make sense?
Mickey: It does. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was fantastic. Yeah. I love you mentioned like he was, yeah, he, he goes different directions than you would expect. He goes a little more straightforward where a lot of books get a little amorphous and kind of give you general tips. He [00:03:00] kind of digs right in and tells you, here’s what you need to do and here’s how we do it.
I love one thing I notice in the book a lot of people like him that write a book, kind of say at my company over at my firm, and they kind of. Make it kind of grayed out. He’s like, no, at Matchstick, his company, we do this, and at Matchstick we do that. He didn’t, why bother hiding that? Like, here’s what we do at our agency and here’s why it matters.
I love, he was just very outgoing with that, which I don’t understand why more people aren’t, but it seems most people kind of hide that and he was proud of it too, which he should be. Matchstick is a fantastic company, so
Rachael: Uh, I think that’s a good point in the fact that he, he’s almost taking away that humility, right.
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: relevant and bold in what he’s saying, like it’s making sure that he’s a part of the conversation, which is what we’re all trying to do with our businesses. We want to be remembered and we wanna be, uh, referenced as often as possible. Um, but I, I. Loved even his example of, um, getting asked that question of what do you do
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: five words of like the importance and being ready to like answer it and [00:04:00] then being able to answer it in such a way that make people remember you and. understand what you’re doing. I think that’s the hardest part as business owners is making sure that it is clear and digestible because we’re are so far into our work or we are working with people who already know what we’re doing, that when you talk to an I outsider, you think that they’re gonna get what you’re doing, but they don’t.
And I think with radically re this book helps you find different ways to present what you’re doing in a way that they can walk away and say, this is what they do.
Mickey: And it’s important, but Exactly. Um, I was gonna say, my favorite quote from the book is a short one. He had, he said, it’s a mistake to sacrifice qu, it’s a mistake to sacrifice clarity on the altar of distinction. And I see that too often where people either think their brand is the mark, which is not. The, the thing you draw, the little logo is not your brand.
But then also people wanna be different for difference’s sake, and that’s not good either. You know, he’s saying clarity comes first and if you can do that, that’s great, but some, so many people will try [00:05:00] to be distinct that they lose clarity. And like you said, they don’t really understand what the brand is anymore, and that’s not helpful for anyone either.
Rachael: Absolutely.
Mickey: I love that he does that. Um, so he talks through, related to that is the stages of brand growth. He talks through the five stages of brand growth. And again, if you think branding is a logo, this doesn’t make any sense into you guys brand is is the brand, it’s the company. So he talks about the five stages of Pioneer, challenger, established legacy and dying.
And I thought it was a. Interesting way to look at it, and he kind of got pretty deep on most of those, but pioneers we’re just kinda starting up improving and testing challengers where you’re kind of getting things going. You have some new services and offerings and trying to get there established is when you become the leader in many ways.
I think that some of the brands you mentioned, the other half would be legacy.
Rachael: legacy,
Mickey: Where the good old days are behind them, but they’re not quite forgotten. You know, the brands you mentioned people will know about in 50 years still, even if they go away tomorrow, just ’cause they’re so established and then dying brands, you know, some you have to adopt to keep up or you know, he says it’s time for a hail Mary or an exit.
You gotta figure out which way you want to go if brands get tired. So it do you, do you see that kind of growth in the brands you work with? Kind of working through some of [00:06:00] those stages? I think, I feel like you do a lot of pioneer kind of help people get, get their initial braining off the ground.
Rachael: It’s true. I, I really enjoy working with brands that are in the pioneer the challenger stage because they, I think that’s when we come to the table with a lot of energy
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: um, still a little bit of that like daydreaming sense. but then like I also love following the rebrands of bigger companies that are in that established or legacy. Uh, stage, and it’s so important because you’re reinstalling that life, I think, into these established brands to say like, no, we’re still relevant and we’re still radical in order to avoid becoming a dying brand, right?
Mickey: right. Awesome. Yeah. That, that can make a big difference for sure. And, and some of ’em, they try to become more radical and relevant to prevent dying and it sort of kills ’em off anyhow if they do a poor job. So it’s a, a dangerous place when you become legacy and you need to try to rebuild, you gotta take some risks and it can, it can go both ways.
Um, he mentioned, and you’ve mentioned a few times, you know the book is radically relevant. So we kinda defined it just to make sure we’re clear [00:07:00] what we’re talking about here. Radical is unique and differentiated within their space. So again, not being just crazy, but within the space you’re in, being different and then relevant, being relatable and valuable to the audience, which I think you talked about a little bit already.
And so . He gives six tips for that as well to become radically relevant. So we’ll start with just the radical side, which is clarity, distinction, and control, which offhand don’t seem radical, but the ability to be clearly and easily understood dramatically stand out for your competition and produce consistent communications and experiences.
I think, I think one that is kind of radical in that so many brands don’t do that, , they aren’t clear, they aren’t in control, but the distinction is, I think the one that seems most radical to me, where he said, the ability to dramatically stand out from your direct competitors. So how do you see a brand doing that?
How, how can brands become more distinct?
Rachael: I think so much of it comes back to courage and authenticity and, and Blake Howard that courage often. Um, but any business and any owner, like everybody can come to the table with this unique background and this unique story and this [00:08:00] unique vision. I think in order to fit in, we’re often Encouraged to not stand out too much.
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: And so that like walking that sweet line of fitting in and being accepted while still standing out and being radical is a challenge. And I think in a way you kind of have to, you have to embrace what your secret powers are, your superpowers or your secret sauce. You
Mickey: Yep.
Rachael: able to wave this freak flag and say, No, we’re doing it a little bit differently and here’s why. And trust that there are other people out in the world that say, I need that. I want that
Mickey: Gotcha. Well said. Yeah. It is interesting to me that under the radical subgroup here, he has distinction, which is radical, but also clarity. You know, to be radical, you still have to be clear and easily understood, so you can’t, can’t skip those. So his super six, he has a radical, is clarity, distinction, and control.
And then for relevance. Is attraction, devotion and alignment. So attraction, you know, the ability to draw in new and hopefully ideal audiences. Devotion, consistently deliver on your promises and alignment, the ability [00:09:00] for everyone in your organization to be in sync on your brand story and value. So tell me, tell me your thoughts on, on being relevant versus just radical about attraction and devotion and alignment.
Rachael: Well, what I loved in his presentation of being relevant is. Clear point of saying it is not personal. to to have that devotion and that clarity, like you have to consider the attitudes, beliefs, and the values of both your company and then your audience and finding that. Uh, that middle ground to say we both, uh, like love the same thing.
We need the same thing. Um, he talks a lot about emotional needs and functional needs, and that’s when we start to think of these companies and
Mickey: Hmm.
Rachael: products or services that they have, and that’s when they become relevant, right? We say, you are fulfilling this need, but order to choose one company or another, which is where branding becomes important, uh, where you’re looking at the attitudes and beliefs and values
Mickey: Right? Well said. Yep. [00:10:00] And again, those attitudes, beliefs, and values are part of your brand. Again, I wanna emphasize this enough that branding is not, not just the pretty things, you know, which that certainly helps, but it’s, yeah. The things behind it that stand out. Stand out so much. You mentioned early on your perspective on reading this book and how it affected you.
Who do you think this book is really for? Who should run out and get it today and who should maybe not worry about it as much?
Rachael: I’d be so curious to hear your thoughts on this because you know, it’s sort of one of those how to help books where you can do it on your own
Mickey: Mm-Hmm.
Rachael: you’re able to like understand what they’re trying to present in this book. But in the end, hopefully you’re still going and like working with Matchstick or another brand designer that can say, Here’s what you think you know about your brand and here’s what we actually see. Um, because I think that’s the challenge is we’re so close to our that it is personal and it is, it is hard to make sure that we are presenting it to the outsiders in a way that is to them. [00:11:00] I do think it’s for, say, like business owners entrepreneurs, but it’s really only a stepping stone to Collaborating with other people who have this skillset to make you radical and relevant
Mickey: Gotcha. I like that. Yeah, I kind of, I see it kind of the same way. Because what’s interesting here is we’re talking about branding so much, but the book is not about designing. Like I can’t, I can help with branding, but I cannot help with the design aspect. And that’s not what he’s talking about here anyhow.
’cause when you say he’ll walk you through the brand, he will to a degree, but you still need to hire a professional, like a matchstick or like you to actually help with the design elements and make them cohesive with what they’re supposed to mean behind the scenes. But it kinda goes back to even things like StoryBrand, just figuring out who your audience is and what matters to them and what sets you apart from others.
And just kind of figuring out really who you are
Rachael: who
Mickey: what people should think about when they see your brand, when they see your logo.
Rachael: see your logo.
Mickey: The logo is just a logo. You know, we see like the Nike swoosh is just a little dippy swoosh and that’s not a thing. But when you see it, you don’t think of that. You think of sweat and power and muscles and the things they’ve helped you get over the years.
And that’s really what your brand should do as well, is [00:12:00] whoever helps design the little, the little swoosh for you, which could be a big deal. What, what is gonna stand behind it? And I think that applies to most everyone. But I think, like you said, business owners,
Rachael: business
Mickey: I think any business owner really could get, get some good information outta this book.
’cause it’s not about design. You know, a design book. I read some, but . I’m just not good at coming up with creative design, so it doesn’t help me a lot, but this is not what this is. This is coming up with what’s behind the design, which really should be the answer to almost anything you design, what’s really going on behind it, behind your website, where people guiding to you behind the logo, behind anything, and this is a good, good look at that.
Rachael: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. ’cause I think it, it’s really the, the notes I was taking throughout this book was how I could reframe or reposition myself and my company to make
Mickey: Hmm.
Rachael: like to communicate differently to my audience. And so I think anybody who’s looking for a little bit of insight that, this book would be really helpful for them.
Mickey: Yep. Have you made any changes to how you communicate as a company because of this yet?
Rachael: I, I think so. Maybe not in the tangible assets that I have, [00:13:00] like my website or anything like that. But, uh, definitely with every conversation I’m having with somebody, it’s, I’m testing new ways thanks to some of the, um, the like light bulb moments that I had through this book. Um, I, I mean, even just a couple of weeks ago, I had a, a realization that When I thought I was avoiding jargon and being so clear in my messaging, just in a conversation like around the coffee pot with somebody, I still was using jargon and
Mickey: Yeah.
Rachael: everybody was just having to like fill in the blanks and assume I was assuming that they knew what I was doing. But in the end, I think it’s the best practice is to assume nobody knows what you’re doing and why
Mickey: Yep.
Rachael: it.
Mickey: Agreed. It, it’s a tricky line though because you don’t wanna talk down to someone like, here’s what I mean with that. Like if they already know. So it is certainly a balance. But yeah, I tend to air toward Overexplain a little bit. You know, I’m big about that. Whenever I write an acronym in a blog post, I make sure to spell it out the first time.
So even something like SEO, you know, search engine optimization, I’ve said it a million times, but someone reading it may have no idea what that stands for. And so [00:14:00] many acronyms now, because there’s so many, they mean . Two or three different things, depending on who’s saying the acronym. It would be the same three letters, but it means very different things in different cases.
So yeah, it can make a big difference there. Um, anything else in the book?
Rachael: yourself?
Mickey: Oh.
Rachael: Did you, did you take away anything from the book and, and take any action, um, for your own business after reading this
Mickey: I don’t think I took any action, but it helped solidify and helps me push a little harder on clarity. Again, I love that it’s a mistake to sacrifice clarity on the alter of distinction. I’ve used that line with clients a few times now because they’ll wanna do something crazy to be different and it makes things less clear and it like, yeah, it can be different, but, but why?
You know, I think it helps me just. More appreciate the why’s that I ask folks. Like, um, it wasn’t specifically mentioned in the book, but animation is one where clients will come and say, we want animation on the website. I’ll say, okay, well why do you want animation on the website? And I’ll give them three reasons.
I’ll say that it can be an impact animation, you know, to kind of really blow people’s mind when they get there. A focus animation to draw people’s eyes to a specific thing or an interaction animation where when [00:15:00] they click on something, it does something like, let’s accomplish a goal if it’s not one of those three.
If you just want animations flowing down the page like . You are gonna be drawing people’s eye everywhere and not really thinking through what you’re doing. So again, it’s very distinctive. If your website animates all over the place, it’s distinctive, but you’ve destroyed clarity. So yeah, sacrificing clarity on the alter of distinction is, is problematic for a lot of folks.
And this has helped me just be more firm about that, I think.
Rachael: That’s wonderful. That’s a great example too.
Mickey: Cool. Alright, so Rachel, is there anything that you do to help companies stand out and be more radical? Are there things that you’ve taken in this book to actually literally help clients? Do I.
Rachael: I think the best starting point is to consider the story and the details that are behind brand and those visual elements that we so often think a company is, um, considering those. Differentiators and what makes one company more useful or more fun, or whatever it might be compared to their competitor.
Mickey: Gotcha. Very cool. Yeah, [00:16:00] we do, we do a lot of that with messaging work, but yeah, messaging and branding, all this stuff ties together so, so closely. Like I consider we do messaging, but it kind of falls under our branding section of the website process. ’cause there’s written branding and visual branding and they need to go hand in hand.
And so yeah, this kind of helps, helps tie those together. I think. ’cause his book really feels a lot like the written branding kind of thing. But of course it all ties back to . To how you present yourself. So it’s a, a good, good way to blend the two of those
Rachael: Yes. I mean, branding and business and marketing, they all overlap and overflow and they have to be connected. And I think sometimes that’s hard for somebody that considers yourself a brander. I. I can do anything. Uh, when it comes to brand design, it’s like, well, what do you, what do you need? ’cause it could be on the web and it could be digital, or it could be print, or it could be, I don’t know, more temporary.
It’s, it’s literally everything. It’s just a matter of what the purpose is and, how we can have fun with it.
Mickey: Agreed. Very cool. Well, yeah, so I think we both agree that you should go out, whoever’s listening to go out and buy his book, and you’ll have to [00:17:00] buy it from his website and they’ll ship it off. And it’s only a, a physical copy. You can’t get it on Kindle. And again, you don’t want it on Kindle. Even if they did, it’s, it’s fantastic.
And you’ll have a beautiful book to show off to people and hopefully learn some stuff from. So Rachel, this has been fantastic. Um, how can people find you online and learn more about you?
Rachael: Yes, thank you for this. Um, they can find me studebakerdesignco.com or on Instagram at Studebaker Design Co
Mickey: Awesome.
Rachael: on LinkedIn at the same way.
Mickey: Cool. Where, where are you most active? Are you Instagram?
Rachael: I’m definitely most active on Instagram.
Mickey: Yeah, and I’m the opposite, so I’m on both as well, but you find me on LinkedIn, so yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.
Rachael: Awesome. Thank you, Mickey.
Leave a Reply